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Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/01/29 21:10We have had a running query with Persimmon for over 18 months that all of the radiators in our Richmond were too small. They kept responding that everything ‘was to spec’ and leaving it to us to have to chase the query up again – I wish I had a pound for each time Persimmon have closed this job down on their system.
Our query has been based on the points:
1. Question of radiator sizes being adequate arose during our very first Newbuild snagging session.
2. The house never warms up properly (Renelec have checked the boiler & stat, and even they thought the radiators were too small for the rooms).
3. To achieve a design room temperature of 21 degrees in the lounge, we have to turn the thermostat up to 30 degrees.
4. We fitted heated towel rails in the main bathroom and En-Suite, which instantly transformed these rooms into the warmest in the house – with a definite temperature drop to the next room.
After much reminding, Persimmon handed us the complete radiator specification for our property which had been done for them by a company called Domestic Heating Design, from Kettering. The spec sheet also applies to the other Richmonds on Katherine Park on plots 37, 82, 116, and 120. The document shows for each room:
- Heating output required in Watts, - Radiator dimensions, - Radiator type - DeLonghi Compact range throughout.
The spec also identifies between type ‘K’ for single skin radiators, and type ‘KK’ for double skin).
Armed with these specifications, a check direct with a DeLonghi agent has shown very clearly that all of the radiators, not just the master bedroom, are all undersize by an average of 26%, and will never be able to meet Persimmon’s own specifications for heat output.
We have spoken to an independent heating engineer, and have measured all of the rooms ourselves to calculate to heating requirement (there’s a formula that takes in temperature differentials either side of each wall, room type and use, window/glazing sizes, etc – very detailed) and we came up with slightly different heating output requirements for each room, but still well above the maximum output of the supplied radiators.
To fix this – and by that I mean to fit radiators that meet the minimum heating output for each room – is to increase the single (K) skin radiators to double (KK) radiators; this would be a bolt on solution for all but 3 of the rooms, where a physically longer radiator would call for changes to the feed pipes positions in the walls.
The DeLonghi agent, also a heating engineer, has stated that in this situation our boiler (a more than adequate 60KW Glow-Worm unit) will be running far from peak efficiency and we will likely have large heating bills for a house that never feels as if it actually warms through properly. This sums up our actual situation and he said that without any prompting!
We'll keep you posted folks...........
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katherineparkvictim2
User Senior Boarder
Posts: 14
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Re:Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/01/31 12:05Again, we have the same problem. We live in a Berkeley type house with "dual zone" heating and find that our heating does not come on at all upstairs! The thermostat is located on the airing cupboard wall and always reads about 5-6 degrees centigrade higher than the rooms. Unless we turn it up to about 28 the heating doesn't come on. Thankfully, we have underfloor heating in our bathrooms! Even if we can get the heating to come on upstairs, the rooms are still cold. My son's room averages 17 degrees, so we're all sleeping in one bedroom at the moment. Quite mad for a brand new house! We've asked Persimmon for the heating schematics so we can get British Gas to do a report for us. Will let you know...
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KatherineParkVictim
User Senior Boarder
Posts: 15
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Re:Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/02/04 15:16I can only speak for the 5 Richmond houses in our part of Katherine Park Phase 1, but the rads are confirmed as undersize by DeLonghi and an independant heating engineer. The physical size and usage of the rooms have also been worked out for heating requirements and even that way the Persimmon fitted rads come up short (undersized).
That doesn't mean to say though, that the same thing has not happened to other types of houses - look forwards to hearing how you get on. Our date with NHBC, etc, is 4 March, and ater that we will be escalating our very black and white case to the local building standards people, etc, and will be seeking publicity far wider than this single website - watch this space.......
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KatherineParkVictim3
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Re:Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/02/05 21:02 Thank you for the information about the 'mini-me' style heating that Persimmon have installed into the Richmond-style houses on Phase 1. As a fellow Richmond home owner we have noticed the rather inadequate heating. However, as we are also heavily involved on a number of other issues with Persimmon the heating has been put on the back burner - forgive the pun !! But I will be using the detail you have so kindly provided to highlight the heating deficiency when I next contact the NHBC.....
We have all paid big money for our homes and they expect us to gladly receive their poor workmanship and their equally bad Customer Service (oximoron or wot ?) and to just roll-over and accept it ..... I don't think so !!!!!
Keep talking the talk and spreading the word...
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katherineparkvictim2
User Senior Boarder
Posts: 14
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Re:Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/02/11 19:52Persimmon have refused to hand over the schematics for our heating, saying "it's not company policy". Nevertheless, we will pursue a survey from an independent company to ascertain whether or not our radiators are sufficient.
It seems bizarre to us, that both the Study and the Dining Room have double radiators, whilst the bedrooms, which are 2-3 times bigger, have a small, single radiator in them. Presumably, they're counting on heat rising, or us plebs getting out the hot water bottles
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honestbuilder
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Re:Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators - 2008/02/16 23:46Hi, has the house been properly insalated? as this is a common problem on new Homes, as the work is carried out by sub contractor's on "price work", and ipersimmon dont actualy employ any tradesmen only accountants and so called management teams,on you site would have been,Agent,F/lift driver,& labourer,it's all about money i'm afraid
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Snagging Forum 
Thank you for the information about the 'mini-me' style heating that Persimmon have installed into the Richmond-style houses on Phase 1. As a fellow Richmond home owner we have noticed the rather inadequate heating. However, as we are also heavily involved on a number of other issues with Persimmon 
the heating has been put on the back burner - forgive the pun 
!!
